Mustang Steering Rack Efforts

[79coupe]

I'm still amazed that none of the rebuilders, assemblers, marketers, or engineers have stepped in to fill the void on this. It isn't just for the Road Racing, OT, or HPDE junkies. There are ton's of hardcore Mustang street drivers that would pay to get a good feeling, quick ratio rack.

[bsharp]

I am not wanting steering to end all, just stock. Anyone know anything about http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=FORD

[swhiteh3]

So, are there still no simple options for a fitting which adapts the rack fittings to AN fittings? Long ago I cut my stock hardlines and brazed AN fittings on them, which worked very well for a long time, but now they're starting to rust a little, which makes me nervous, and the routing is not ideal for my new set-up. Thanks.

[Jack Hidley]

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...oducts_id=1001

[swhiteh3]

Hehehe... I'll pretend that I knew that, and that I was just giving you a chance to pimp the MM stuff...

So is that the fittings for a FOX or SN95 car?

[79coupe]

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...oducts_id=1001

Those are great for the feed and return. How about fittings for the cross tube?

[Jack Hidley]

Fox and SN95 use the same inlet and outlet fittings.

We don't have fittings for the cross tube as we've never seen the need to replace the stock hard line.

[79coupe]

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley

Fox and SN95 use the same inlet and outlet fittings.

We don't have fittings for the cross tube as we've never seen the need to replace the stock hard line.

My cross tube to the passenger side rubbed through due to contact with a fitting from my dry sump pan. (It's amazing how much stuff moves on track). I used a -6 fitting with teflon tape but it weeps just a little bit.

[Toby86]

Looks like MM's site has been hacked

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...oducts_id=1001

I hate these guys as well as the spyware writers...Sure would be nice to have a list and be able to take them out, just saying.

[Jack Hidley]

Toby,

The link works fine for me.

Did you by chance click on the quoted link in post 286? If you do that, you will get a message from the MM website saying "page not found". This is because the quoted link only has the text that you can physically see. All of the middle characters in the web address are missing.

[Toby86]

Jack,

when I clicked it had a stating it had been hacked...from the pictures and flagged it look Russian...but any other page I opened on my PC was good. Oh well all is good, works now.

[Serpentor]

has anyone tried this: http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant...=FORD+MST94-04

Convert your 1994-2004 FORD MUSTANG from power steering to QUICK RATIO manual steering! Drop the weight and power drain of a Power Rack & Pinion and Power Steering Pump!

I'm just wishing for an improvement in feedback and a livelier turn-in. Outside of MM steering shaft (done), stiffening up everything (done), and less toe-in, there aren't too many options out there... the steering still feels like an UPS truck compared to the Mazda3 rental car I had last week..

edit.. scratch that link.. its for a manual conversion. I'm not about to ditch power steering on my daily driver.

[Kane]

Jack,
Will those fittings work on the s197 rack.

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by 79coupe

I'm still amazed that none of the rebuilders, assemblers, marketers, or engineers have stepped in to fill the void on this. It isn't just for the Road Racing, OT, or HPDE junkies. There are ton's of hardcore Mustang street drivers that would pay to get a good feeling, quick ratio rack.

It comes down to cost. I've been searching for a good steering rack to use in the chassis we build at work, and nothing is as user-friendly and cost effective than the Mustang rack. The ONLY replacement I've found is Woodward, and that isn't a bolt-in for you Mustang guys.

I could sit down and design a new steering rack right now, but the cost would make it unmarketable.

[bsharp]

Originally Posted by bsharp

I am not wanting steering to end all, just stock. Anyone know anything about http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=FORD

I ended up getting one from Unisteer. So far so good. I got the painted one and it looked good, no overspray all over other parts. The steering feel is ok. It feels a little light compared to OE but not as light as the A1 rack. The were professional on the phone and shipped quick. They did not charge for oversize shipping like most other place do.

[Kane]

Thats the goal down the road is to have Wooward build a rack with the new MR style rack they have out.
For now I have to stick with the s197 rack

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by 79coupe

I'm still amazed that none of the rebuilders, assemblers, marketers, or engineers have stepped in to fill the void on this. It isn't just for the Road Racing, OT, or HPDE junkies. There are ton's of hardcore Mustang street drivers that would pay to get a good feeling, quick ratio rack.

Isnt there lots of evidence the higher end custom t-bar AGR racks do a nice job of this?

David

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by David Borden

Isnt there lots of evidence the higher end custom t-bar AGR racks do a nice job of this?

David

It feels good, but not great. It still doesn't compare to a nice ZF rack.

[gmorrell]

Originally Posted by swhiteh3

So, are there still no simple options for a fitting which adapts the rack fittings to AN fittings? Long ago I cut my stock hardlines and brazed AN fittings on them, which worked very well for a long time, but now they're starting to rust a little, which makes me nervous, and the routing is not ideal for my new set-up. Thanks.

These guys have some interesting parts, haven't tried anything from them, I just had the link stored in my favorites.

Pure Choice Motorsports, power steering rack fittings.

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by swhiteh3

So, are there still no simple options for a fitting which adapts the rack fittings to AN fittings? Long ago I cut my stock hardlines and brazed AN fittings on them, which worked very well for a long time, but now they're starting to rust a little, which makes me nervous, and the routing is not ideal for my new set-up. Thanks.

You can check this link as well. Its what I am using on the AP car.

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...=646&cat_id=12

David

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by Mattj

It feels good, but not great. It still doesn't compare to a nice ZF rack.

Matt, Have you do back to back testing of the AGR rack and a ZF rack in the same car with the same conditions? If so, what are the details?

David

[Jack Hidley]

The Pure Choice Motorsports fittings linked above will not fit in a 79-04 Ford rack as described. They are the wrong fitting type and they are metric. Not gonna work.

[gmorrell]

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley

The Pure Choice Motorsports fittings linked above will not fit in a 79-04 Ford rack as described. They are the wrong fitting type and they are metric. Not gonna work.

I wonder, some years ago I built a couple of AN adapter fittings using the hose ends from the rack in my '85 SVO.

Never used 'em, but I hunted them up last night and checked the thread sizes.

The smaller (return) fitting is 9/16"-18, which is remarkably dimensionally close to M14-1.5. Not saying that Pure Choice Motorsport's 11770 14m O'ring to -6 AN male fitting will work, but it might. They don't spec the thread pitch, so it might not be a match.

The larger (supply) fitting is 5/8"-18, which is close to M16-1.5. The major diameter of 5/8" is 15.7mm, so it's undersized, and an M16 fitting may be a tight fit in a hole tapped 5/8"-18, but it's only about 0.013" different, so they might interchange.

If it was me, I'd ask Pure Choice if they'd ever tried the metric fittings in the inch holes, or if they'd make some adapters for 9/16 and 5/8" -16 to -6 male.

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by David Borden

Matt, Have you do back to back testing of the AGR rack and a ZF rack in the same car with the same conditions? If so, what are the details?

David

I've compared them side to side, but not in a vehicle.

What I do know is there is much, much less friction in most performance-oriented ZF racks, with straight cut teeth and bearings on the rack shaft. The inner tie rods are very free moving as well. AGR racks, and every other Mustang racks are bushed (except for the pinion, ball bearings there), helical cut teeth, and large amounds of force is needed to overcome the racks "stiction". They don't provide near as much feedback as a ZF. But, rebuilt ZF units run about $900.

It's like comparing a Woodward rack to a Mustang rack, if you've played with those before.

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by gmorrell

The smaller (return) fitting is 9/16"-18, which is remarkably dimensionally close to M14-1.5. Not saying that Pure Choice Motorsport's 11770 14m O'ring to -6 AN male fitting will work, but it might. They don't spec the thread pitch, so it might not be a match.

The larger (supply) fitting is 5/8"-18, which is close to M16-1.5. The major diameter of 5/8" is 15.7mm, so it's undersized, and an M16 fitting may be a tight fit in a hole tapped 5/8"-18, but it's only about 0.013" different, so they might interchange.

If it was me, I'd ask Pure Choice if they'd ever tried the metric fittings in the inch holes, or if they'd make some adapters for 9/16 and 5/8" -16 to -6 male.

The metric fittings do fit in the SAE-threaded castings, but it's a one-time deal! If you never plan on removing the fittings, it will work OK. If you want to do it the right way, use the proper fittings. The metric threads will gall the SAE threads. It's unbelievable how many people say to use the metric fittings; it's just not right.

Art Morrison Enterprises, as well as others, sell the proper fittings for earlier racks.

[Oktavius]

Does anyone know how much AGR charges to rebuild one of their racks? I can't call during business hours and their email address is bouncing. Thanks.

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by Oktavius

Does anyone know how much AGR charges to rebuild one of their racks? I can't call during business hours and their email address is bouncing. Thanks.

It's about $175 or so.

You should look into doing it yourself. It's actually fairly easy, and the seals can be purchased at NAPA.

[Oktavius]

Originally Posted by Mattj

It's about $175 or so.

You should look into doing it yourself. It's actually fairly easy, and the seals can be purchased at NAPA.

Thank you.

Are there any references for rebuilding the rack?

[MarkMc26]

Originally Posted by Mattj

The metric fittings do fit in the SAE-threaded castings, but it's a one-time deal! If you never plan on removing the fittings, it will work OK. If you want to do it the right way, use the proper fittings. The metric threads will gall the SAE threads.

Hmmm, that sounds a lot like crossthreading, aka "The Kentucky Lockwasher."

Mark

[Oktavius]

Been thinking it over and I think I am going to see if AGR will rebuild with the 0.265 t bar. May get a chance to call today.

I currently have the craptastic Flaming Rivers steering shaft. Would like to get the MM shaft. Should I see about an SN95 input shaft if I have AGR rebuild the rack? Would there be any benefit outside of the ability to use SN95 racks in the future? Thanks.

[Oktavius]

Was able to call AGR. Told me it is $150 to R&R the rack and $100 for new valve (0.265). Asked about swapping to the SN95 input and he said it would be included in the $100 for the new valve. So $250 for R&R and new tbar.

When I asked about the SN95 input he called it the "double d" input. Is that the correct term for the SN95 input? (can't remember what it looks like).

So since I am getting a new MM steering shaft, should I get the SN95 conversion shaft or just stay foxy?

[gchandler]

Mattj,

You mention the ZF racks, is there one that matches/works for these Mustangs?

Or was that simply an illustration?

[Mattj]

Originally Posted by gchandler

Mattj,

You mention the ZF racks, is there one that matches works for these Mustangs?

Or was that simply an illustration?

Illustration only. If you want a high quality rack and are willing to do some work, Woodward is your best option.

[ArthurDent]

So, the Flaming River unit does cost more now, and it's got that pretty blue anodizing. It would be nice if they explained anything useful about it:
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...rod/prd223.htm

I've been reading this thread for about two years and wanted to contribute something to it.

[Oktavius]

Originally Posted by ArthurDent

So, the Flaming River unit does cost more now, and it's got that pretty blue anodizing. It would be nice if they explained anything useful about it:
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...rod/prd223.htm

I've been reading this thread for about two years and wanted to contribute something to it.

Holy cow! Price has gone up. Almost $1k sounds a little steep.

My rack has been at AGR for a week now. They quoted 1-2 weeks turnaround. Hopefully it comes in soon. I did go with the 0.265 tbar and SN95 input. Have MM hybrid shaft and spherical rack bushing upgrade on the way too.

[Oktavius]

Called AGR 20 minutes ago to check the status of the rack and the guy who answered the phone said most of the people had left but he thought it was sent out and to call back tomorrow to verify. As I got off the phone I heard a big truck pull up outside. Sure enough the guy was carrying a long box with AGR on it.

After I opened the box and battled the expanding foam packing, I noticed that the rack was very new looking. In fact, it wasn't the same housing I had sent in. No biggie. Even came with new boots, rack bushings, and teflon seals. And then I looked at the input shaft. Standard fox setup. Crap. I ordered the SN95 input and this isn't going to work with MM hybrid
shaft that I received last week. Will have to call the tomorrow and mail it back.

Looked at the invoice and it says Double D input, 0.265 valve, and R&R. When I ordered I said I wanted to change to the '94-04 input and the guy said the double D input. I said sure figuring he knew what he was talking about. Does anyone know if the double d input shaft is the term I wanted? Figuring it I said I was switching, I wouldnt get the same thing back. Looks like no autocross for Tim this weekend.

[Jim Frank]

Originally Posted by Oktavius

Called AGR 20 minutes ago to check the status of the rack and the guy who answered the phone said most of the people had left but he thought it was sent out and to call back tomorrow to verify. As I got off the phone I heard a big truck pull up outside. Sure enough the guy was carrying a long box with AGR on it.

After I opened the box and battled the expanding foam packing, I noticed that the rack was very new looking. In fact, it wasn't the same housing I had sent in. No biggie. Even came with new boots, rack bushings, and teflon seals. And then I looked at the input shaft. Standard fox setup. Crap. I ordered the SN95 input and this isn't going to work with MM hybrid
shaft that I received last week. Will have to call the tomorrow and mail it back.

Looked at the invoice and it says Double D input, 0.265 valve, and R&R. When I ordered I said I wanted to change to the '94-04 input and the guy said the double D input. I said sure figuring he knew what he was talking about. Does anyone know if the double d input shaft is the term I wanted? Figuring it I said I was switching, I wouldnt get the same thing back. Looks like no autocross for Tim this weekend.

The same thing happened to me with my AGR rack. AGR said that they can machine any FOX rack input to become an SN95 rack. Also I sent my rack back to AGR because I already had the MM hybrid shaft that I used on my 03 Cobra rack but if you don't have the MM shaft yet then you may want to stay with the FOX input since it gives much more ability to have the steering wheel straight then the SN95 does because of the splines vs the double d.

Jim

[Jack Hidley]

The Fox input shaft is a single D shaft. Look at the shaft in end view, The flat on the shaft forms the front side of a D.

The SN95 input shaft has two flats machined on it at an angle 60 degrees apart.

[Jim Frank]

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley

The Fox input shaft is a single D shaft. Look at the shaft in end view, The flat on the shaft forms the front side of a D.

The SN95 input shaft has two flats machined on it at an angle 60 degrees apart.

Jack am I correct that you have a greater ability for wheel adjustment with the FOX?

[Oktavius]

Originally Posted by Jack Hidley

The Fox input shaft is a single D shaft. Look at the shaft in end view, The flat on the shaft forms the front side of a D.

The SN95 input shaft has two flats machined on it at an angle 60 degrees apart.

So the SN95 with the two flats would make it the double D?

Frank, I already have the MM hybrid shaft. The reason I decided to go with the SN95 input is that I don't have total faith in AGR. If the rack dies, then the plan is to get a SN95 rack (maybe a remanufactured with lifetime warranty), and swap the 0.265 valve to it. Hopefully with an SN95 rack, I will have a little bit more luck that finding a good fox rack.

I checked the rack and on the flat part of the input I see 265 stamped. So at least I know I wasn't sent the wrong rack.