C6 Z06 Track Test: Can You Drive Faster Than The Computer?

[Andi]

http://blog.andibaritchi.com/2008/09...-computer.html

Refuting R&T's bs tests*....

*OT note: Their Oct08 recent CTS-V vs ///M5 test was beautiful. Bring your own drivers and let them wring out every little bit from the car. Maybe R&T is finally starting to feel the backlash.

Cheers,
Andi

[ericke3]

Nice run. R&T's times are utter bullshit but they are in to sell magazines. I can see where the computers can make one faster especially in the rain or other conditions with low traction like off road rally's involving computer optimized AWD.

Although more than anything I see individuals with very powerful modern sports cars (Ferrari,GT2/3,M3/5,EVO) that are hamfisted without it. And need that edge to keep them on track and alive or even better not hitting me or another track day driver.

I guess in a way it can be envy of all the shiny new stuff. Although I still love my "analog" Pontiac with a legacy 389ci V-8 and no traction control except for my foot.

[Andi]

It's amazing how on Corvette forum the thread has degenerated into a pissing contest about how everybody with a bottle of Zaino can drive better and smoother than I can.



Did I say amazing? I think I meant amusing.

Cheers
Andi

[Patrick Olsen]

You can't say that and then not give us the link on the Corvette forum!!

And I concur that the M5 vs. CTS-V comparo was pretty cool. Simple and to the point - bring your car, bring your driver, it's ON!! (I still think it's awesome every time I read about something like that that the "hot shoe" that GM brings out is the guy who fucking runs the GM Performance Division!)

[Andi]

Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen

You can't say that and then not give us the link on the Corvette forum!!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2133611

[Houstonnw]

Originally Posted by Andi

http://blog.andibaritchi.com/2008/09...-computer.html

Refuting R&T's bs tests*....

*OT note: Their Oct08 recent CTS-V vs ///M5 test was beautiful. Bring your own drivers and let them wring out every little bit from the car. Maybe R&T is finally starting to feel the backlash.

Cheers,
Andi

Wow, so Millen is the ultimate douchebag Nissan shill, no?

[JohnK]

Originally Posted by Andi

It's amazing how on Corvette forum the thread has degenerated into a pissing contest about how everybody with a bottle of Zaino can drive better and smoother than I can.



Did I say amazing? I think I meant amusing.

Cheers
Andi

Nothing better than putting your money where your mouth is and proving it. Nice connection Andi!

[Dylan Savage]

Originally Posted by Andi

It's amazing how on Corvette forum the thread has degenerated into a pissing contest about how everybody with a bottle of Zaino can drive better and smoother than I can.



Did I say amazing? I think I meant amusing.

Cheers
Andi

Way to characterize Lou Gigliotti as a zaino-bottle using corvette forum guy. He's your primary antagonist over there. I like your story, I think your results have merit, but you're painting corvetteforum one way when a quick skim of the thread reveals it's a 35+ year pro driver criticizing you. Tsk Tsk.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by Dylan Savage

Way to characterize Lou Gigliotti as a zaino-bottle using corvette forum guy. He's your primary antagonist over there. I like your story, I think your results have merit, but you're painting corvetteforum one way when a quick skim of the thread reveals it's a 35+ year pro driver criticizing you. Tsk Tsk.

[Tom A]

Actually, I think Lou is right, you aren't very smooth.

Doesn't mean the car mags aren't full of shit. If you notice the first post by Louis @ LG mentions Competition TC on is slower with Lou driving.

Tom
(also not smooth)

[Andi]

Originally Posted by Tom A

Actually, I think Lou is right, you aren't very smooth.

Doesn't mean the car mags aren't full of shit. If you notice the first post by Louis @ LG mentions Competition TC on is slower with Lou driving.

Tom
(also not smooth)

Everybody missed the point. I wasn't out to set a record and keep practicing till I set the most perfect laps (the smooth laps). I was trying to do some pretty good laps one way vs. the other way, and see which came out better. Yes, I was a bit rusty. I had just been out of the country for three weeks and hadn't been behind the wheel of anything that whole period. Flew home from Romania on Aug 31st evening, drove my Z06 home at the speed limit (VERY out of character for me), and slept all day labor day. Sep 2 woke up and went and did this track day.

I think I was probably pretty damn smooth when I did three 1:23.2's in a row on the stock Goodyears within two weeks of buying the car. Which is the exact same laptime LG ran in his with Stoptechs and headers (saw it with my own eyes back in 05 when he did his first Z06 testing...).

So everybody that's on my back about not being smooth, go and do better than me in a stock Z06 on street tires at MSR. Or a Skyline.
:-)

Cheers,
Andi

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Andi

So everybody that's on my back about not being smooth, go and do better than me in a stock Z06 on street tires at MSR. Or a Skyline

Well you posted the video for comment... you shouldnt be surprised that not everyone is riding your nuts?

I watched the video. Your inputs are choppy (steering, brake and throttle), your line is inconsistent and you're crrrrrrrrrashing on to the kerrrrbsssss in places. Is that needed? I suspect your vision is 'down' given the choppy inputs but I wasnt in the car.

You look like a lot of the advanced level students I've ridden with at DE's that have high HP cars. I'd have told the same thing about their inputs in a debrief in the paddock. Its not 'bad' driving but you may be leaving some time on the table.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Well you posted the video for comment... you shouldnt be surprised that not everyone is riding your nuts?

I watched the video. Your inputs are choppy (steering, brake and throttle), your line is inconsistent and you're crrrrrrrrrashing on to the kerrrrbsssss in places. Is that needed? I suspect your vision is 'down' given the choppy inputs but I wasnt in the car.

You look like a lot of the advanced level students I've ridden with at DE's that have high HP cars. I'd have told the same thing about their inputs in a debrief in the paddock. Its not 'bad' driving but you may be leaving some time on the table.

I did leave some time on the table in this video.

I don't start out smooth and get faster the way they say by the book. It ain't my style. I attack the track fast and sloppy to feel the limits of each corner that day and smooth out as the session and practice day progresses. The last session is a sequence of perfect laps of which you'd applaud the video.

I have a badass suction cup camera mount (didja see the pic?). It did a badass job. Now all I need to do is buy my own damn camera so I can get some more track footage. I keep borrowing friends' cameras so it's a rare occasion.

Cheers,
Andi

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Andi

I don't start out smooth and get faster the way they say by the book. It ain't my style. I attack the track smooth and sloppy to feel the limits of each corner that day and smooth out as the session and practice day progresses.

Indecently I do the same thing, and its given me trouble with a few instructors. I just can't "drive the line" before I've pushed to the limits and back, because I'm not certain what "the line" is. Driving a race line without being at the limit seems like humping a pillow to me; I just can't get a feel for anything unless the car has some significant slip angles.

Maybe its a habit left over from my first on-track experiences, which were basically time-attacks where we only had X number of laps to go as quickly as we could.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Grant

Driving a race line without being at the limit seems like humping a pillow to me

There's a difference between driving up to and just over the limit, and going way over (slide) and back, and way over and back, all around the track.

Maybe some time on street tires in a momentum car would help you out?

[Shortcutsleeping]

Driving a car with and without the electronic aids requires a pretty drastic change in driving style to minimize lap time. I liken your 'test' to folks that take off a set of 710s and bolt on a set of R6s and make no other changes to maximize the tire. Both tires will be fastest with different pressure and caster/camber/toe settings...but folks don't like to waste time optimizing, they merely declare a (potentially false) winner.

To echo others here, your driving is erratic and common among higher DE level folks that have high hp cars. I usually have them drive a session (or two...or three...or until they 'get it') in one gear (4th) concentrating on smoothness and feeling the edge of the limit in small slips vs massive oversteer.

Is that a motorcycle helmet?

Costas
cars and such...

Agreed on the M5/CTS-V comparo, that was sweet! Bring your best, do your best and hope for the best. Nice.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by .RJ

There's a difference between driving up to and just over the limit, and going way over (slide) and back, and way over and back, all around the track.

Maybe some time on street tires in a momentum car would help you out?

Well, one should hopefully not still be trying to find the limit turn after turn, lap after lap... In any case, I have more seat time than anyone should in a 125awhp, 2,900 lb Subaru* (and 100cc karts, momentum machines if there ever were any).

* On pavement, that is. One cannot get enough seat time in a Scoobie on dirt!

[79coupe]

Originally Posted by Grant

Indecently I do the same thing, and its given me trouble with a few instructors.

Well, I guess if I was your instructor and you were Indecently driving, I might have trouble with it too.

[Andi]

It gave me a lot of pleasure to be black flagged by a overzealous pit marshall one day for my "erratic" driving one practice day back in 02... and to win the whole damn time trial the next day.

Cheers,
Andi

[SBCelicaGT]

Originally Posted by Andi

I don't start out smooth and get faster the way they say by the book. It ain't my style. I attack the track fast and sloppy to feel the limits of each corner that day and smooth out as the session and practice day progresses. The last session is a sequence of perfect laps of which you'd applaud the video.

So you're a hot-headed inconsiderate jackass with more ego than sense. Got it.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by SBCelicaGT

So you're a hot-headed inconsiderate jackass with more ego than sense. Got it.

[RyanC]

Andi, I think a Picard is more appropriate for you

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Andi

It gave me a lot of pleasure to be black flagged by a overzealous pit marshall one day for my "erratic" driving one practice day back in 02... and to win the whole damn time trial the next day.

If a DE student in a 'vette had an inconsistent driving style (like yours) and then bragged about how he won various 'time trial' events we'd be having a long talk in the pits. It sucks to pull students off the track but its better than pulling them out of a tire wall.

Do you have to special order your helmets?

[ccwenk]

One of the biggest issues that people have when trying to drive quickly with a stability control system is their habit of counter-steering when the vehicle begins to oversteer. If you do not counter-steer, the stability control can allow the car to rotate until it believes that you are in an excessive oversteer condition. As soon as you counter-steer, the stability control system sees a discrepancy between your intended direction of rotation (steering wheel angle) and your actual direction of rotation and it will try to correct. Obviously, the calibration of the system is everything. I don't have experience in a Corvette, and it is possible that Competition mode is tuned in a way that would allow you to spin out without counter steer, but if you are that out of shape, you are forcing the stability control system activate more than is necessary.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by .RJ

If a DE student in a 'vette had an inconsistent driving style (like yours) and then bragged about how he won various 'time trial' events we'd be having a long talk in the pits. It sucks to pull students off the track but its better than pulling them out of a tire wall.

Do you have to special order your helmets?

Luckily I'm way past having to deal with the bad apple jealous instructor types that have never driven a non-momentum car before and don't know what it's like. Thank you for your consideration and ongoing amusement.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Andi

Luckily I'm way past having to deal with the bad apple jealous instructor types that have never driven a non-momentum car before and don't know what it's like.

So you're good enough that you dont need an instructor anymore? Ever? Thats interesting.

Shumacher had a driving coach while he was in F1.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by .RJ

So you're good enough that you dont need an instructor anymore? Ever? Thats interesting.

Shumacher had a driving coach while he was in F1.

I pick my words well. I said what I said; nothing more nothing less. And especially not the words you're trying to put into my mouth.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Andi

I pick my words well

Not all instructors are momentum car homers, or bad apples (depending on the organization, those are weeded out fairly quickly). But, you are saying you dont have to "deal" with these instructors anymore. Is having an instructor in the seat somehow hindering your progress as a time trial champion?

[Dylan Savage]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Not all instructors are momentum car homers, or bad apples (depending on the organization, those are weeded out fairly quickly). But, you are saying you dont have to "deal" with these instructors anymore. Is having an instructor in the seat somehow hindering your progress as a time trial champion?

I was homing in on the "jealous" part, myself.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by .RJ

So you're good enough that you dont need an instructor anymore? Ever? Thats interesting.

Shumacher had a driving coach while he was in F1.

There is a big difference between getting randomly assigned an instructor (as in most DEs), and hiring one (as in F1 drivers). I would absolutely say that back when I had randomly-assigned instructors in my passenger seat, most hindered my speed and learning (one, however, was awesome and invaluable).

Those instructors don't know you or your car. They don't want to get injured, and I don't want to injure them. Most seem to come out assuming you have little track experience just because you'd never run with their organization before. I've never gotten in any sort of an argument with them (I respect their not wanting to get killed by some schmuck they've never met), but it can be frustrating.

I've found talking with faster drivers, following them, riding with them, and comparing DAQ data from fastest laps to be a lot more helpful.

[ericke3]

Let's dial it back a bit here. This thread is degenerating into personal attacks and away from tech. The gist of this whole thread was the issues with a party driving the Z06 who is legitimately biased toward Nissan/GT-R (Steve Millen aka Stillen).

How it was inferred in the R&T article that the Z06 is completely undrivable with out electronic aids etc. That is the crux of the matter. Can one with this level of power lap faster with out the nannies than with them engaged?


The little scenario that Mr. Baritchi pulled off was somewhat impromptu and not actually as in depth as some would like. But it does speak to some concern about ringer cars and drivers supplied by manufacturers and magazine editors.

As a disclaimer I don't hate the GT-R. I truly believe it's one the best sports/GT cars on sale today for any price. But like anyone else I'd like to see some truly representative tests and not fluff pieces written for Nissan or GM.

[ACW1]

I generally don't post much but I could not keep silent.

It's easy to be a critic. How many of us have either rented out or had access to a road course and put it out there for all to see?

I think Andi has done a fine job and it really comes down to driver preference. Yes, we all know smooth is fast but we also know that numbers don't lie. The key here is that Andi is not trying to sell anything.

Job well done Andi.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by ACW1

I generally don't post much but I could not keep silent.

It's easy to be a critic. How many of us have either rented out or had access to a road course and put it out there for all to see?

I think Andi has done a fine job and it really comes down to driver preference. Yes, we all know smooth is fast but we also know that numbers don't lie. The key here is that Andi is not trying to sell anything.

Job well done Andi.

Thank you.

[Dylan Savage]

For the record Andi, I wasn't criticizing your driving or your conclusion. I drove much faster with the stability control off in my C5, although I think that system was different than the one in the C6 and the C6 one is probably better. I was only criticizing your characterization of the exchange on the corvetteforums, which was mostly with Lou, who certainly is qualified to criticize. I'm sure he'd say the same thing about my driving, I just don't hang it out there and put videos of my driving up. I do generally like your videos and various things you do because they are entertaining and that's what is important.

Take it easy.

[Josh L]

Originally Posted by Andi

It's amazing how on Corvette forum the thread has degenerated into a pissing contest about how everybody with a bottle of Zaino can drive better and smoother than I can.

That sounds like an opportunity for you to make (or lose) some money. Remember that homotron from Corvetteforum who couldn't tell apart a seriously built up Honda with a motor swap and a nice turbo kit versus a fart can Civic? He called the swapped cars out for a race and lost a lot of cash.

[PCP]

Andi- My take on reading Lou's comments weren't the same as yours, probably because they weren't directed toward me. It seems to me that Lou is saying that the driving wasn't at a level to determine whether electronic aids were of an ultimate value or not, rather than a personal attack. I know, easy for me to say, I'm not in the video

It's an interesting line of discussion and this isn't the first indication or rumor that Millin has sandbagged on tests. However, to properly quantify that would take more than just a single datapoint. To that end, it would be great if there were a mix of pro and semi-pro drivers like Sheehan, Gigliotti and whoever to prove your case.

[Andi]

Originally Posted by PCP

Andi- My take on reading Lou's comments weren't the same as yours, probably because they weren't directed toward me. It seems to me that Lou is saying that the driving wasn't at a level to determine whether electronic aids were of an ultimate value or not, rather than a personal attack. I know, easy for me to say, I'm not in the video

It's an interesting line of discussion and this isn't the first indication or rumor that Millin has sandbagged on tests. However, to properly quantify that would take more than just a single datapoint. To that end, it would be great if there were a mix of pro and semi-pro drivers like Sheehan, Gigliotti and whoever to prove your case.

Thanks PCP. I get what Lou's saying, I just don't buy it. My assertion is that even if I had kept going all day until I had the smoothest laps possible, the comp mode would still have kicked in and slowed me down. Maybe not by as much or maybe by more. I don't feel like going and doing another test, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader* (*= for those that are criticizing saying they can do better).

I posit this theory because the AH in a production car, like Lou himself said, isn't a racing system. It's just a safety net for regular drivers. It isn't designed with racing in mind. If it detects yaw, it doesn't fathom the possibility that perhaps it's intentional, that the racing driver might be throttle steering the car. It just thinks "oh shit" and reacts, against you. And, worse, when you *do* make a mistake and get out of shape, the car reacts *for* you. A good driver has his own reactions (counter-steer) built-in. That gives you two opposite reactions for just one action. That means snap spin the other way for a good driver. That's why A/H stays off in my car even on the street. My reflexes are developed and automatic, and I don't need them compounded with an unpredictable computer causing disastrous unexpected consequences. If I fuck up, I want it to be my fault, not the computer's.

Regards,
Andi

[Andi]

Originally Posted by Josh L

That sounds like an opportunity for you to make (or lose) some money. Remember that homotron from Corvetteforum who couldn't tell apart a seriously built up Honda with a motor swap and a nice turbo kit versus a fart can Civic? He called the swapped cars out for a race and lost a lot of cash.

Seems like a damn good idea. I already challenged any skyline on street tires in the other thread... maybe I should open it up to all the haters (and the few "instructors" in this thread talking down to me). Maybe then I'll finally get that gold star from RJ.

Ooh, the coveted gold star.

[Sean Park]

Ok, look, I'm going to put down some rules here...

First, show Lou the respect he deserves, always. Not only is he a fantastic driver, but Lou is one of the nicest, greatest gentleman out there who clearly deserves respect, regardless of conflicting positions.

Second, show Andi some props for taking the time/effort to clearly demonstrate the concern(s) regarding AH. He never claimed that those were his fastest lap times, demonstration of the best driving on the planet, nor an instructional video on how to win Le Mans. The point to be made was made quite clearly, AH slows you down, at least when you can drive and have the natural, personal ability to control the car on your own accord.

For comparison, we need to go schedule another run time at MSR, find a first time Zaino king and do it all over again. My gut feeling is that the outcome will be entirely opposite. REMEMBER that not everyone (i.e. the vast majority) of people who buy the C6 Z06 just aren't on the same level. Also keep in mind, as I told Andi, that his natural attempt to fight back and counter the AH potentially made the negative impact even greater. This unfortunately brings up the question of whether Millen was submissive and gave in or if he was trying to impersonate Andi.

The still unanswered question is how much it really does slow you down. Had Andi given in and let AH take control, the negative outcome may not have been nearly as bad as it appears. As Costas said:

Driving a car with and without the electronic aids requires a pretty drastic change in driving style to minimize lap time. I liken your 'test' to folks that take off a set of 710s and bolt on a set of R6s and make no other changes to maximize the tire. Both tires will be fastest with different pressure and caster/camber/toe settings...but folks don't like to waste time optimizing, they merely declare a (potentially false) winner.

[Shortcutsleeping]

Originally Posted by Andi

The last session is a sequence of perfect laps of which you'd applaud the video.

Earlier this year Ross Bentley said something to the effect that the perfect lap is unattainable. Following the link you provided to the vette forum, LG said the same thing. Interesting that you believe you can put together a whole sequence of them.

Originally Posted by Andi

It gave me a lot of pleasure to be black flagged by a overzealous pit marshall one day for my "erratic" driving one practice day back in 02... and to win the whole damn time trial the next day.

The whole damn time trial? Say it isn’t so!! Is that when you qualified for the HPDE National Championships?

Originally Posted by Andi

Luckily I'm way past having to deal with the bad apple jealous instructor types that have never driven a non-momentum car before and don't know what it's like.

Here’s my car. I think it is safely on the ‘non-momentum’ side. I'm not sure if you were calling me or RJ or someone else a 'bad apple jealous instructor' but rather than reacting poorly, why not subjectively watch the video? Show it to ANY fast/accomplished driver and I think you'll hear the same comments.

Originally Posted by Ericke3

That is the crux of the matter. Can one with this level of power lap faster with out the nannies than with them engaged? The little scenario that Mr. Baritchi pulled off was somewhat impromptu and not actually as in depth as some would like.

You think? His ‘test’ was a joke and the results are only worthy of the roundfile. Hopefully he had fun playing around because we actually learned nothing. If he indeed had awesome laps later, why didn’t we see those laps? Like a buddy showing up at the bar with some ham-hock eating wildebeest (gold star if you can name the movie) but saying he had some totally fine chick earlier. Yeah. Riiiight.

Originally Posted by Ericke3

But it does speak to some concern about ringer cars and drivers supplied by manufacturers and magazine editors.

THIS JUST IN: Bare metal CAN rust, when the sun goes down it gets darker, and water is WET! Puhleeze, this isn’t anything new.

Originally Posted by Ericke3

As a disclaimer I don't hate the GT-R. I truly believe it's one the best sports/GT cars on sale today for any price. But like anyone else I'd like to see some truly representative tests and not fluff pieces written for Nissan or GM.

As with every other performance car, you simply must wait to meet one on the track with a good driver and see where it stacks up.

Originally Posted by ACW1

I think Andi has done a fine job and it really comes down to driver preference. Yes, we all know smooth is fast but we also know that numbers don't lie. The key here is that Andi is not trying to sell anything.
Job well done Andi.

Numbers don’t lie, however achieving those numbers in such a manner as he did makes them meaningless. Hitting the electronic aids that hard and driving that choppy simply throws large chunks of time away and makes the test useless.

As for the ‘key’ being Andi not selling anything, he just seems to be into self-promotion and that is fine and dandy assuming you are not claiming that it is actual tech. He is not bringing actual tech here. He says he cuts ‘perfect laps’ and I assure you he does not. This type of jumping up and down and saying ‘look at me’ flies just fine on other car forums, but this is the last bastion of no-bullshit automotive tech on the Net that I know of and being a member I’m obligated to stand up and call BS when I see it. This is indeed it, and I am calling BS.

The only thing I’ve seen worthwhile regarding this has been Lou’s post on the VetteForum:

Originally Posted by LG ‘the man’ himself

Let me just say that there is no such thing as 100% unless you are michael Schumacher or one of the great drivers.
And driving "Over 100%" means that you are closer to 80% than 100%. There is no such thing as "slightly over".
Usually slightly over means a crash if you are actually near 100%. But a novice driver can lose it even at 80% if the inputs and reactions to the inputs go too far resulting in losing it.
The AH in the Street Vette is clearly too intrusive. But on high speed tracks, it is much more helpful than in an auto x turn.
The Z06 can produce enough "G" forces to bring the AH on line. But again, it can be thwarted with smoother driving.
Some on this forum think that driving fast is equivalent to what a race driver does at 100%. But what is really happening is that most non professional drivers are driving at 100% of their ability and not 100% of the car's ability.
So when I see these threads that claim Absolute conclusions based upon a forum member's assesment that they are driving at 100% of the car's capabilities is not really the case.
Let me give you a couple of examples: I had a crew member who was an accomplished national SCCA race winner who regularly beat the competition in his class. Then one test day with our World Challenge car he said that he could go as fast if he were given a chance. So I let him run the car until he was comfortable then we slapped some new tires on and he laid down a good time, even better than I thought.
Then I set aside my testing mind set and went out and whipped him by 3 seconds. He was in shock because he told me that he was getting "everything out of the car that it had". He was at 100% of his ability and racing knowledge but not 100% of the car's potential.
Then to not sound cocky and bring home a point, I was racing in an endurance race with Boris Said. Boris and I had raced many classes together, and we were pretty equal. But that day in the same car, Boris was over a half second faster than I was. (in pro racing a half second is a life time). In my mind,I was getting 100% out of the car. But it was only 100% of my ability. Now, being a pro racer and a competitive guy with Boris as a team mate, we went over the data and we got within a tenth of a second. My subtle mistakes made the difference. And in the the data session, we both found more time to improve the team.
There are so many slight mistakes that can kill lap times. The average track time driver never has to deal with these because they are not comparing times in cars built to the same set of rules, on the same track on the same day to see the real differences.
One little slip of the rear tires will lose 1-2 tenths. At Utah, with 23 corners, if you lose 5 hundredths of a second (.05) per corner, then you are now over 1 second slower on a full lap. (1.15 sec) slower on a lap. So if we all really take diving seriously, we will accept that we all can only improve and get closer to the ultimate lap.
IF the perfect lap is like a wall, and you get closer by half the distance each time you get on track, then you will NEVER reach perfection. You can only approach it even if you cut the difference in half, you can never get to the wall(wall= best lap possible)
And any of us who think that we are at 100% are just fooling ourselves.
Moral of the story----Drive hard, have fun, and become a student of the sport and improve on what is impossible to perfect.
Even Michael Schumacher always said he could be better.
I will be driving at Petit Lemans with Marc Goossens. He is one of the fastest drivers that I have ever had the pleasure of being a team mate with. I can only hope that I can "approach" my best lap, and his high tide will raise all boats.
Thanks guys.
Lou G

Put someone genuinely fast in the car who takes the time to learn to drive the car fast under both conditions (all electronics off, then in ‘competitive mode’) and I’d love to see it. I’m sure most everyone here would love to see it. It would be worthwhile and the tech requirement would be met. My personal guess is that the session without electronic aids will be faster. It would be very nice to know that for sure. However, I can’t reference this youtube video and not laugh. Sadly, some folks will believe it and think it is true tech. That is not what this forum stands for.

Costas
cars and such…

happy birthday meerkat!